The last update on the RegisterFly situation covered the deal struck between RegisterFly and GoDaddy that saw all the registrar’s domains transferred over to GoDaddy.
That deal has seen the vast majority of domain issues sorted out. However, as far as ICANN is concerned, RegisterFly and Kevin Medina were in breach of their contract and ICANN has continued to prosecute its case against the company.
On 4 June 2007, RegisterFly applied to the court to modify the Permanent Injunction against it.
On 8 June 2007, the Court denied RegisterFly’s application and set a hearing for 12 June 2007 regarding the company’s lack of compliance with the Permanent Injunction. Mr. Medina’s was ordered to appear personally.
On 12 June 2007, ICANN provided the Court with an update on RegisterFly’s compliance, noting the remaining deficiencies. The Court ordered a further hearing for 15 June 2007 and noted that if RegisterFly had not fully complied with the Permanent Injunction by that date he would begin calculating sanctions.
On 13 June 2007, the Court entered the Permanent Injunction and ruled that RegisterFly was in default on the underlying action.
At the hearing on 15 June 2007, ICANN instructed the Court that RegisterFly had finally at least attempted to comply with the Permanent Injunction provisions, but since most of the data had been provided to ICANN the previous afternoon, ICANN reserved the right to seek further relief if the data RegisterFly provided to ICANN was not compliant.
During the hearing, the Court continued to show its dissatisfaction with Mr. Medina’s conduct.
Related point:
ICANN will be holding a public meeting tomorrow that will review, among other things, changes to the registrar system that, it is hoped, will ensure that the RegisterFly situation does not reoccur. The meeting will be held on Monday 25 June at 1pm EST at ICANN’s meeting in Puerto Rico.
Those unable to attend will be able to follow events online and will be able to participate in the discussion through ICANN’s public participation site. A specific meeting webpage for the event will see questions will be taken from the public and from remote users and introduced into the meeting – for more information review the blog post here.
{ 58 comments }
cho0b 06.24.07 at 4:08 pm
Please save us from GoDaddy. The Registerfly situation was bad enough and now we have to deal with GoDaddy. They say that ICANN has not given them authority to allow ex-Registerfly customers to transfer domains from GoDaddy before 60 days has passed. During that time many people’s domains will expire and they will be forced to renew them with GoDaddy. If they do not, their domains will be parked by GoDaddy.
What will be done about eNom? They extorted thousands of dollars from Registerfly customers to get their domains back.
There are so many people waiting for an answer or even just some sort of reply to these questions.
Butler 06.24.07 at 4:14 pm
Thanks for the update on what icann did during the past few months. As someone who finally gained access to my domains its great. As noted by the other comment no its not great that I have to keep my domains at Godaddy but I think most people are just happy they got control of their names.
Is my guess that median actually benefitted from Godaddy getting the domains correct (ie Godaddy bought everyones accounts). That would be terrible but thats the business world.
Syed Raza Ali 06.24.07 at 7:25 pm
Hello Everyone,
That is right we all peoples have got domains in godady but what about they payments we have there. We have added payments in registerfly by see the trust logo of icann in there website. Now after domains was transfered success and we got account of godaddy , when i ask rgisterfly to refund my payment. They said that they will not give my payment the have not enough payment to give someone. What a shame is that. Who will be responsible for the payments we have there damm!!!!!!!!!. I Request ICANN to told them about payments as well that they refund all of the peoples payments as well. I have right now $2000 there. I want my payment asap . Otherwise i will spam your Icann site everyone. You peoples are making your registerars an un secured websites what a sham. Looks like you are also a big Fraud on the web. I want my payment back from there and you are responsible for my payment i have there.
Drkoop 06.25.07 at 7:09 am
There needs to be an overhaul of the domain name registration system and the drop system period. This whole ordeal is an awful thing to have to go through for any business person and the fact that enom and other drop vultures could basically extort business owners for their domains is criminal. I also think the domain “tasting” ability by registrars should be illegal as it give too much power of registration to those who are already in control of the situation at hand (the registrars). The general public should have a fair shot at any domain that could potentially be a business for them without having to shell out thousands of dollars to enom, pool, etc. The current situation takes that power and gives to the registrars and drop vultures.
Allowing a registrar to buy any domain in bulk for five dollars to taste it and see if it is successful before the general public has access to it (aside from having to pay said registrar 100-1000% more for the chance to have a domain) is criminal as well.
Icann needs to rectify this system if it cares about the integrity and fairness of the system period. This register fly scandal is just another black eye on the industry as a whole.
Anonymous 06.25.07 at 11:55 pm
Here we go again. ICANN, why do you keep ignoring the problem with the current situation with GoDaddy. GoDaddy keep pointing fingers back to you. It’s time you take a stand on the 60 days issue with GoDaddy.
This is like talking to a blank wall. I am so tired of having to deal with this. My next course of action will be to gather a minimum of 6 registrants with the same injury and file a separate class action. Perhaps by then you will take the time to hear us.
Joe 06.26.07 at 6:47 am
I think everyone is trying to take their anger out at Go Daddy, when Go Daddy isn’t at fault.
Would you rather your domain names were still stuck with RegisterFly? That was the alternative.
Go Daddy can’t help that RegisterFly didn’t make a payment, or is holding up your money. That’s not their fault.
Kieren McCarthy 06.26.07 at 6:51 am
I’ll repeat a comment I have just made elsewhere about these complaints.
As I understand it, your complaint is that GoDaddy is not allowing people to move ownership of their domains for 60 days.
This is how GoDaddy operates. I believe I am right in saying that it does this because it consistently makes various offers to encourage people to register domains with it and that it also follows good practice by not charging people a large fee to shift their domain to another registrar.
GoDaddy doesn’t want people to use their special offers to get a cheap domain and then shift it immediately to another registrar – that is their business model and since GoDaddy are one of the biggest registrars in the world with one of the highest rates of customer satisfaction, they appear to be doing a pretty good job.
But here is the point: the registrar market is an open and liberal market. The Internet is a much better place because of this approach. Because of that, ICANN takes a very hands-off approach to encourage and allow for competition.
The deal done between RegisterFly and GoDaddy was a deal done between RegisterFly and GoDaddy. ICANN was working on a parallel path to take the data off RegisterFly but the deal done had nothing to do with that process.
GoDaddy bought the data and took over the registrations.
What GoDaddy is saying is that it is including its usual 60-day condition on those domains. When asked about it, it is saying that unless ICANN orders it to do otherwise, it will use its normal processes.
ICANN is not going to tell GoDaddy how to run its business because that would set a dangerous precedent where ICANN interferes with the registrar market.
ICANN is not going to be the best judge of a rapidly moving and highly competitive market and so ICANN allows market forces to decide. That is the model. And that is why domains cost from $6 and can be bought in seconds online, as opposed to costing $50 and requiring three forms of identification.
That’s the answer. It may not suit your situation or please you but that’s how it works.
Kieren McCarthy
General manager of public participation
Bigfoot 06.26.07 at 11:44 am
Not all domains were rescued. Country Coded domains are still there and those hijacked by a certain director are still hijacked.
Anonymous 06.26.07 at 1:19 pm
Joe,
Perhaps your damage isn’t that great because you don’t have as many domains. This is a special case and GoDaddy is being greedy. ICANN was at fault for not taking care of the Registerfly matter sooner. By asking whether we would rather have the domains stuck at Registerfly or have GoDaddy take care of it, that’s is irrelevant. Have you considered asking whether or not we want GoDaddy to take over the names? ICANN was supposed to facilitate the transfer, but kicked the ball to GoDaddy. Now both of them are pointing fingers back and forth.
Kieren McCarthy 06.26.07 at 1:33 pm
This comment is in breach of our Comment Policy, namely:
“Libel, conjecture, nonsense
Likewise, we will delete – without notice or appeal – blog posts that contain unsubstantiated claims, libellous accusations, or accusations of conspiracy. The ICANN blog will not deal in wild claims. We are a professional organisation and will remain entirely disinterested in anything that has no factual basis or useful, practical point.”
A previous post you made was also in breach under Abuse, namely:
“Abuse
Our policy is to delete any comment that merely vents a spleen or to which it is not possible to produce a useful response. We will do this without notification, or appeal, and we do so entirely without shame. If someone persists in sending abusive comments, we will block their IP address. The same holds true for threats – personal, organisational, legal or otherwise.”
Just to let you know that if you continue breaching our comment policy, we will block your access.
Kieren McCarthy
General manager of public participation
cho0b 06.26.07 at 5:03 pm
GoDaddy is telling it’s customers that the 60 day waiting period is something that ICANN isn’t letting them lift.
My guess is that ICANN is trying to waste time until the 60 days is up so people can’t complain about it anymore. Which they will continue to do. You will start hearing complaints from people that didn’t want to renew their domains with GoDaddy and didn’t (for the principle of it) and will then have their domains parked by GoDaddy, never to be owned by the original owner again.
Yes, there was a business transaction between GoDaddy and Registerfly. Do we trust Registerfly? Should they have even been allowed to continue doing business with our domains even after everything they did and didn’t do?
“But here is the point: the registrar market is an open and liberal market. The Internet is a much better place because of this approach. Because of that, ICANN takes a very hands-off approach to encourage and allow for competition.”
GoDaddy’s 60 day wait period does not seem like an open and liberal policy. If I do not wish to give my money to GoDaddy and I never agreed to have my domains with GoDaddy then why should I be forced to take advantage of their “various offers to encourage people to register domains with?”
Forcing people to renew with them and not giving any alternatives does not seem like a fair business model to me.
And here ICANN is saying that they will not get involved due to their “hands off” way of doing things. Newsflash, you’re helping the company and not the users with that policy in this situation. You’ve basically told us that “Yeah, we can tell GoDaddy that it’s okay to let people transfer their domains before 60 days, but we don’t think that’s a good idea.”
captainproton 06.26.07 at 10:36 pm
I would appreciate it if ICANN would follow up and post all court filings concerning Registerfly. The last post was May 16, which was over a month ago.
Recently, you asked how ICANN was doing. Let me tell you. ICANN current grade concerning regular Registerfly updates C-. Posting Registerfly court documents D. Reporting problems with the godaddy transfer F.
It’s like as registrants we have to beg for-every-single-thing. It really is tiring.
cho0b 06.26.07 at 10:44 pm
Don’t say too much they’ll start deleting your comments. :shifty eyes:
Kieren McCarthy 06.27.07 at 4:06 am
Or, more accurately, don’t repeatedly post untrue, unsubstantiated, threatening or wildly inaccurate posts and expect ICANN to retain them.
Kieren McCarthy
General manager of public participation
Kieren McCarthy 06.27.07 at 4:52 am
> My guess is that ICANN is trying to waste time
> until the 60 days is up…
Cho0b,
You call them “guesses”, I call them consistently ignoring the information we provide on this blog and then posting wildly inaccurate and unsubstantiated theories with little or no basis in reality.
This blog is designed to enable interaction and review of ICANN processes. It is not a chatroom and we do not feel obliged to allow comments to stand that provide little or no practical use either to the organisation or to anyone that reads the blog.
What we do feel obliged to do is to make the blog a place that people keep coming back to because the posts and comments are worthwhile.
There are plenty of other places online to post your guesses, please use them and not this blog.
Kieren
Kieren McCarthy 06.27.07 at 9:39 am
Hi Captainproton,
We actually have a webpage to cover each lawsuit that ICANN is involved, or was involved in.
The RegisterFly lawsuit can be found at: http://www.icann.org/general/litigation-registerfly.htm
It is not fully up-to-date and I can tell you why: all the material is prepped and ready to go except we are currently in the middle of a week-long meeting and there is a huge amount of timely material that has to go up each and everything day and that takes priority.
Thankyou for your gradings.
Kieren
cho0b 06.27.07 at 5:59 pm
Dear Kieren,
How can you call the things that we are experiencing with GoDaddy and ICANN untrue? If the people posting here have had these things happen to them and have had no help from anywhere, what are they supposed to do?
cho0b 06.27.07 at 6:05 pm
Could you please respond to the other points I brought up? I believe I’m fairly caught up on what ICANN has been up to with regards to GoDaddy and Registerfly. If I’m not then wouldn’t that be ICANN’s fault? It can’t be mine because I’m right here on the ICANN blog and I only have the information you give us and the things I experience first hand. If you think those things don’t carry enough weight to even comment on then perhaps.. oh wait I shouldn’t finish this sentence.
Questioning ICANN = deleted comments.
It’s the easiest way to make problems go away, right?
cho0b 06.27.07 at 6:09 pm
In your defense, Kieren, you have been better at responding and not deleting comments than anyone else around here.
Just thought I’d add that since my last comment makes me seem like a pretty big… jerk.
gary 06.29.07 at 10:23 pm
I think it is disgusting how Godaddy are allowed to extort money out of unwilling customers like myself that have hundreds of domains and have to renew them with this money machine called Godaddy which is in bed obviously with ICANN, what a joke. I lost a lot of money because of these criminals making me renew in the 60 days at their very high renewal rates and they even sunk so low to put the price of renewals up as soon as the Registerfly deal was done..
cho0b 06.30.07 at 11:48 am
GoDaddy sent me an email the other day saying I have until July 6th to renew my domains before I lose them forever. That’s so nice of them isn’t it? LOL WRONG. After they expire GoDaddy charges you $60.00 per domain to get them back. If you don’t pay them this HUGE fee in time they will park your domain forever.
cho0b 06.30.07 at 7:27 pm
In before ICANN rep saying something about Libel, conjecture, and nonsense.
David 07.02.07 at 2:31 am
Libel, conjecture, and nonsense?
All I want to know is … under what legal theory are you and I bound by GoDaddy’s Terms Of Service?
It’s a perfectly legitimate question that nobody at ICANN or GoDaddy has answered or even addressed.
Did YOU enter into any kind of an agreement to have GoDaddy take over YOUR domains? Their “normal business practice” at GoDaddy is that anybody who registers a domain through them has to FIRST agree to their Terms Of Service.
I don’t know about you, but I purchased a bunch of domains at RegisterFly, and I agreed to RF’s Terms Of Service. I NEVER was given an option to accept or decline GoDaddy’s Terms Of Service. Were you?
Why are people now bound to GoDaddy’s Terms of Service, and in particular, the one that prevents us from transferring our domains to another registrar for 60 days?
ICANN has said it’s because GoDaddy is following their “normal business practices”. That’s not libel, conjecture, or nonsense. It’s a fact. A fact that’s never been explained.
It’s also a fact that GoDaddy entered into a business arrangement with the owner of RegisterFly. Not the individual domain owners.
I must have missed the email that asked me if I wanted to agree to become subject to GoDaddy’s Terms of Service.
Did ANYBODY get that email?
Again, I’d like to know … under what legal theory are RegisterFly customers bound to GoDaddy’s Terms Of Service?
I asked an attorney. He said, “Show me the paperwork”. I said, “I wasn’t privvy to it.” He said, “Well, then you can’t be. That’s basic contract law.”
He said it’s called a “novation”. And it cannot be perfected without the explicit acknowledgement and agreement of the party in question. The party(s) in question are us — RegisterFly customers.
Tim Ruiz 07.02.07 at 2:36 pm
Kieren,
Your analysis is not completely accurate. It is not Go Daddy’s 60-day rule. It is a requirement of the Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy. Readers can find it here:
http://www.icann.org/transfers/policy-12jul04.htm
The Policy clearly states that a domain name may be denied transfer if:
9. A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to be determined) after being transferred (apart from being transferred back to the original Registrar in cases where both Registrars so agree and/or where a decision in the dispute resolution process so directs).
Note that it does not qualify the kind of transfer. Is it referring to only previous Holder-Authorized transfers or also to previous ICANN-Approved transfers as well? In fact the parenthetical exception implies that the parenthetical statement itself is the only exception to the rule of 9 allowed.
What we have concerns with is that the following is NOT clear:
1. Does 9 quoted above ONLY apply to previous Holder-Authorized transfers?
2. In the paragraph just prior to the nine reasons for denial, does the use of the word *may* mean that the nine reasons are optional? If so, then what about number 2 which UDRP panelists have made clear to us that they do not consider optional? What about number 3 which the courts do not consider optional? And what about number 8 which at least one registry even enforces on their own as if it is not optional?
What we have said is that if ICANN will clarify the above questions we will consider adjusting our approach to the RegisterFly names. Otherwise, we are left completely at risk for any hijacking or other problems that may result.
Given the problems that these names and their registrants have experienced we are naturally very conservative in any approach that we take so as to be sure no one loses their names. As a result, we believe ICANN’s clarification of the questions above is a reasonable expectation instead of jumping to conclusions on our own.
BTW, we value and appreciate your management of this blog.
Tim Ruiz
Vice President
Corporate Development and Policy
GoDaddy.com
Al 07.03.07 at 1:53 am
Oh boy I allways hade known there was something wrong with Bob Parson.LOL
Kieren McCarthy 07.03.07 at 4:16 am
My apologies Tim, I put down what was my understanding of the situation because people kept making the same point and I wanted to provide a response.
I have to catch a plane in five minutes so won’t be able to respond more in depth for another 24 hours or so, but I will review this and ask a few questions and get back.
Thanks for your feedback on this.
Kieren
Kieren McCarthy 07.03.07 at 10:07 am
In removing two comments because the same point was made in some depth by the same person on the same day three times, I have accidentally made his comment unavailable for review (it was written in response to his own (deleted) comment).
As such, I am reposting the comment here. My comments are below:
———————————————–
Libel, conjecture, and nonsense?
All I want to know is … under what legal theory are you and I bound by GoDaddy’s Terms Of Service?
It’s a perfectly legitimate question that nobody at ICANN or GoDaddy has answered or even addressed.
Did YOU enter into any kind of an agreement to have GoDaddy take over YOUR domains? Their “normal business practice” at GoDaddy is that anybody who registers a domain through them has to FIRST agree to their Terms Of Service.
I don’t know about you, but I purchased a bunch of domains at RegisterFly, and I agreed to RF’s Terms Of Service. I NEVER was given an option to accept or decline GoDaddy’s Terms Of Service. Were you?
Why are people now bound to GoDaddy’s Terms of Service, and in particular, the one that prevents us from transferring our domains to another registrar for 60 days?
ICANN has said it’s because GoDaddy is following their “normal business practices”. That’s not libel, conjecture, or nonsense. It’s a fact. A fact that’s never been explained.
It’s also a fact that GoDaddy entered into a business arrangement with the owner of RegisterFly. Not the individual domain owners.
I must have missed the email that asked me if I wanted to agree to become subject to GoDaddy’s Terms of Service.
Did ANYBODY get that email?
Again, I’d like to know … under what legal theory are RegisterFly customers bound to GoDaddy’s Terms Of Service?
I asked an attorney. He said, “Show me the paperwork”. I said, “I wasn’t privvy to it.” He said, “Well, then you can’t be. That’s basic contract law.”
He said it’s called a “novation”. And it cannot be perfected without the explicit acknowledgement and agreement of the party in question. The party(s) in question are us — RegisterFly customers.
—————————————
David,
I think you make some interesting points here.
I’m sorry that what is happening is impacting you personally in a negative fashion but the wider point is that the entire concept of what domain names are, how they should be dealt with, and the agreements governing their use is being extensively reviewed as we speak.
There is this RegisterFly issue, there is the issue of domain tasting, and the issue of domain kiting. And then there are the new generic top-level domains, and the new rules governing their introduction.
There is the issue of internationalised domain names – and what they are and what they mean. And then there is the issue of protected names, and Whois.
The fact is that when all the rules were first written, domain names were a novel concept, uncertain in use and law. As such, the focus was on allowing the providers of those domains the most free hand possible.
Domain names have since become a very different animal, with an entire industry forming around their sale and resale.
As such the issue of domains has to be reviewed and reviewed carefully. Any change will cause concern, even hostility, but it has to be done.
During that review we need people – like yourself – to bring all the perspectives and arguments to the table. And that table is, for the most part, situated within ICANN and ICANN’s processes.
If I may take your comment and boil it down to policy questions, I would say you are raising some important points:
* Should rights to a domain remain with the reigstrar or the registrant (you complain your domain has been moved to a new company without your consent)?
* Should the terms under which a domain is registered henceforth be applicable to that particular domain? (This has some strong implications and provides dangerous motives for the sale and resale of domains)
* Does there need to be a regulator of the domain name market – or at least a central repository of data and authoriser of transactions (with the implication that transactions can be deemed invalid)? (This also has very significant implications)
If you believe the system has to change, the door is open to those that wish to change it. If you can persuade the Internet community through the ICANN processes that particular changes are in the good of the network, then they will go through.
So get involved. Join the At Large Advisory Committee, send comments to ICANN public comment periods, ask for issues papers, start co-ordinating action, attend an ICANN meeting either in person or remotely.
And if you have any questions over how to do any of these, or how they work, just email me – kieren.mccarthy@icann.org – and I will tell you exactly how it works.
Kieren McCarthy
General manager of public participation, ICANN
Bigfoot 07.04.07 at 9:58 am
A simple question about domains that weren’t transferred to GoDaddy (from my experience these include .co.uk domains).
When, if ever, will these be removed from control of RegisterFly as they’re no longer an ICANN approved registrar?
A bulk transfer of the kind planned but abandoned is still needed for any remaining domains at RegisterFly. One of the .co.uk domains I used to have (I’ve resigned myself to losing it!) has expirefly as the namerserver, a distinctly RegisterFly domain and action!
gl 07.05.07 at 11:34 pm
I just contacted Godaddy to confirm the date that I can transfer my domains which I expect to be on the 31st of July which is 60 days from when these domains were transfered to Godaddy. I had received a letter from Godaddy on the 31st of May like this:
[QUOTE]We’re happy to provide you with a safe, reliable home for your domain(s) and are excited to see that you’re already a Go Daddy customer.
To make your transition as smooth as possible, we’ve already transferred your domain(s) and created a separate account for them. etc etc …[/QUOTE]
So these domains were in my new Godaddy account then on the 31st May.
So I sent them this letter:
[QUOTE]Hello, so when will I be able to transfer my domains out of Godaddy,
when is the 60 day lock hold going to end, please give me the exact
date?[/QUOTE]
I got the following email back from Godaddy after I asked them to confirm the date:
[QUOTE]Thank you for contacting Online Support. You would be able to transfer your domains on or after 08/23/07.
Please let us know if we can assist you in any other way.[/QUOTE]
I wrote back to them:
[QUOTE]Excuse me but what are you talking about? The move from Registerfly to Godaddy which I did not authorize in the first place took place before the 31st of May 2007 as I have an email from Godaddy on the 31st of May 2007 about how we can login and manage the domains that had been shifted from Registerfly to Godaddy. So why are you telling me the 60 day period is ending on 08/23/07? This is incorrect and at the latest it would be the 31st of July 2007 and no later. I in fact expect it to be earlier than that and that is why I asked you.
Please send me the correct exact official date.[/QUOTE]
There response:
[QUOTE]Thank you for contacting online support. I apologize for any inconvenience or confusion. As RegisterFly went out of Business, ICANN had moved the domains from RegisterFly to Godaddy. It appears the exact Transfer Away date that I am seeing for the these domains are 7/28/2007 at Midnight MST.[/QUOTE]
Well this is crap, most of my domains expire on August the 4th and I was expecting that I could transfer these to my preferred register and also save a lot of money but now Godaddy won’t let me. I’m really mad about this and I just want to get all my domains away from these ######’s
gl 07.05.07 at 11:59 pm
ok Well I did see red after their first reply but now realize that I can move them after 7/28/2007 as they corrected in the last email.
David 07.06.07 at 1:12 am
Thank you for at least trying to address these concerns, Kieren. Here’s my interpretation of your reply:
“well, we’re really busy with all kinds of complex issues here at ICANN, and hopefully we be able to resolve these annoying breech-of-contract issues someday in a way that’s more satisfactory with everybody who was injured. But at the moment, we’re more concerned with making sure that GoDaddy isn’t too put out in their recent acquisition of nearly a million domain names from a failing registrar. And we truly hope that this transaction was legal, although that’s not a primary concern of ICANN.”
When you talk with a typical lawyer, they say, “everything usually boils down to a contract dispute”.
So, what contracts were/are in place?
RegisterFly’s customers entered into a contract with RegisterFly.
RegisterFly was unable to continue fulfilling their services and could be said to be in breech of contract.
To remedy this, ICANN instigated measures to rescue RF’s customers.
In the mean time, GoDaddy came along and entered into a SEPARATE contract with the owner of RF to purchase RF’s customer list and take over management of a big chunk of the respective domains.
I’m no lawyer, but … I cannot for the life of me figure out how it could possibly come about that if RegisterFly is in breech of contract, then GoDaddy can magically “remedy” that breech without ANY kind of acknowledgement or permission by each of the other parties involved in that breech.
The “remedy” is that GoDaddy PAID money to RF, then effectively seized control of the injured partys’ domain names without their permission, imposed a NEW contract on them without their permission, and is forcing them to ADHERE to the terms of this contract or LOSE whatever RIGHTS they may have had PRIOR to GoDaddy’s involvement.
Did I mischaracterize anything here? If so, please clarify.
All I asked for was an explanation of what legal theory binds former RegisterFly customers to adhere to GoDaddy’s Terms of Service after having our domain names seized by GoDaddy without our permission?
What in the world does this cut-and-dried contract issue have to do with such things as, “domain tasting … domain kiting … new generic top-level domains, and the new rules governing their introduction”? I get that 50,000 injured domain name “owners” are not exactly at the top of ICANN’s priority list right now. It’s pretty clear to just about everybody.
Any domain names acquired by GoDaddy on behalf of their “owners” that expire within a 60-day period of that date of acquisition and are renewed are then subject to a 60 to 120 day window of FORCED stasis (ie., cannot transfer to another registrar). Either that, or you lose your domain. Period.
NOBODY EVER AGREED TO THIS, EXCEPT KEVIN MEDIA — AFTER HE BREECHED HIS AGREEMENT WITH HIS CUSTOMERS.
This whole scenario is totally backwards!!!
Normally, when one party is in default in a contract, the other party is relieved of their obligation to adhere to that contract. In this case, the contract is to have RegisterFly manage our domain names.
If anything, those of us who were injured by this breech would be the parties who get to say what terms we want. Instead, we’re being told by GoDaddy what terms we’ll adhere to IF we want to keep our domain names!
Frankly, I’d have been happier if my domains had been left with RF, because at least I’d know that when they expired, they’d be held in a queue until I could regain control of them. Since being transferred to GD, I’ve lost control for up to 120 days and incurred fees I would NOT have chosen — were I given the choice.
What part of “contract” isn’t clear about this situation?
The injured parties have been FURTHER injured in this scenario, AND denied our right to specify remedies to cure the breech caused by RegisterFly.
ICANN’s position seems to be that we’re just being a bunch of whining crybabies and we should all be happy that GoDaddy decided to step in and “fix” things.
Jeez, that’s like telling a bunch of people who got robbed to shut up and be happy that the police caught the robbers and their belongings are now in the posession of the police for the next 120 days — which they’ll get back IF they reimburse the State for the expense of having to deal with the robber in the first place. If you don’t want to reimburse them, then they’ll sell your belongings at auction to cover their costs.
I hope I’m making some sense here, and that a lawyer is reading this who decides that there’s a “deep pocket” to go after somewhere to fix this travesty.
The trouble is, after being denied our rights, we are forced to either reimburse GoDaddy for their trouble, vis a vis renewing our expiring domains with them, or else lose them. Any legal solution is unlikely to appear within a timeframe to prevent further injury. And at that point, I have no confidence that ICANN would support ANYTHING that would help RECOVER the lost rights of parties injured by RegisterFly and Kevin Medina.
Kieren McCarthy 07.06.07 at 8:24 am
Ha! I love your interpretation of my response. You will no doubt be amazed to hear that I view it more as a blatant *mis*representation of what I said.
I think my wider point was – stop SHOUTING and throwing around wild accusations and perhaps we can get down to the nub of your issue.
Can you please produce a more reasoned and reasonable comment and I will see what I do to get you answers.
Kieren
Bigfoot 07.09.07 at 9:32 am
As of this post time, the RegisterFly site isn’t working. It isn’t displaying the Court ordered message about ICANN nor their little link to their explanation.
I can’t log on to see the replies (some hope anyway) to the support tickets opened recently.
The quote in the post above from GoDaddy is interesting as RF claim not to have gone out of business but still to be a reseller for Tucows amongst others.
PS: Anyone interested in saving ccTLDs such as .org.uk and .co.uk can contact compliance@opensrs.net and they will provide you with the ability to change TAG id’s (they are different to the Auth Codes, but need altering to the new registrar). I’ve moved quite a few with the help of one particular representative. They take about 3 working days to respond, but respond they do. If your details are valid in the whois searches we’ve all been doing, that is, then they can help!
Bigfoot 07.09.07 at 9:34 am
compliance@opensrs.org not NET as posted – sorry.
Melvin 07.09.07 at 3:28 pm
Their site is working again and the notice is back again.
David 07.11.07 at 6:19 pm
Again, it’s a simple question that nobody at ICANN seems wiliing to answer or even address:
By what legal theory are RF customers legally bound to adhere to GD’s Terms of Service without ever being presented with the opportunity to accept or decline them?
Alia 07.12.07 at 10:32 pm
I have another problem. The WHOIS info of one of my domain name with RegFly shows that RegFly is the current registrant and so it was not transferred to godaddy along with my other domains. I asked godaddy for help and got the the answer:
—–
Hello,
Unfortunately, we will not be able to assist you with your request as the current registrant (legal owner) of the domain is RegisterFly.com. As the registrar we can only make this type of change after verifying the consent of the registrant. At this point you will need to contact http://www.RegisterFly.com for assistance with this domain name.
If RegisterFly is unresponsive or unwilling to assist you in this matter the only suggestion we can offer you would be to contact an arbitration forum such as WIPO (http://www.wipo.int) or settle the matter via the local court system.
Thank you,
Domain Services
—–
What should I do?
Anonymous 07.13.07 at 6:02 am
Except domains can’t hardly be bought for 6 bucks anymore because all of the registrars taste all of the ones you may want and the ones they don’t keep for themselves are thrown at the aftermarket where you would have to bid into the 100’s for them. So there goes the fair competition and cheap domain argument. Give all the power to the registrars and they are going to take us for a ride.
Bigfoot 07.13.07 at 9:29 am
The only thing that worked for me in a similar situation is to wait for the domain to expire, pass through various scavengers of domain names and grab it via a backorder from a registrar. This worked for me because it was a ‘non-site’ domain so didn’t have traffic for advertisers and wasn’t therefore valuable.
If you’ve a valuable domain name then you’ll need to follow through with arbitration provided you’ve the cash and evidence. (IMHO)
Good Luck.
Alia 07.15.07 at 1:13 am
The funny thing is, the domain name is still under my control (if not 100%) and working normally. RegFly simply moved it to the “expired domain” list in my account (so I can’t modify it) though it won’t expire until this November. I have written them for a dozen times about it and got no reply at all.
Johnny 07.15.07 at 4:23 am
I am trying to get my domains from greedy GoDaddy however, Godaddy asks me to confirm I am the owner. Since I own some business domains all domains I have have the business email
blahblahblah@mypersonalbusinesssite.com
or whatever
So I cannot confirm that I own it, I can only provide proof of information. Matching address as shownin the whois etc etc. The business is NOT REGISTERED but yet they wont give me my domain unless I provide a business licensess. I have shown them my registerfly accounty, my paypal accouny, my valid picture driver licenses and told them a dozen times business is not registered but theyw ont give me my domain. ICANN you guys really made a huge F* mess and I am going threw a lot of stress and loseing aloto f money because of this.. you guys control all domains you could have made it simple on us. Now I will never get my business domains back and my customers domains back.
Chris 07.15.07 at 12:38 pm
that is a great point to bring up. I was not caught in the register fly issues. I moved my domain 2 months before this became a big problem. But speaking on behalf of the people that are going through some pains with the move; I don’t see why they would have to agree to GD’s terms of service when they never agreed to them in the first place.
I personally have a few names with Godaddy and have no problems… but it doesn’t mean someone from their situation should have avide by terms if they never agreed to them to start.
Chris
Kieren McCarthy 07.16.07 at 9:44 am
I’m not sure why we haven’t deleted this comment seeing as it rather ridiculously bellows about “extortion”, “being in bed with ICANN” and “criminals”.
But since it was posted over a fortnight ago, I’ll leave it here to serve as an example of exactly the sort of comment we will delete in future.
ICANN has a clear Comment Policy which you can read but the basic rule of thumb is that we don’t feel obliged to leave comments that make wild, unsubstantiated or abusive comments on the organisation’s blog. Because it’s our blog and not yours.
Cheers
Kieren McCarthy
General manager of public participation, ICANN
Kieren McCarthy 07.16.07 at 10:00 am
I’m not entirely sure what your issue is here, Johnny.
Are you saying you registered your domains under a business name but you’ve never registered that business?
I don’t think you can blame GoDaddy for requesting a business licence as proof. Especially when they are dealing with an enormous number of domains at the moment.
I am sure that if you compile all the proof you can that it was you that registered the domains in question and then send the information registered mail to GoDaddy with an explanation and pointing out the date of your first domain’s expiry that the company will get onto it.
But then it really isn’t up to me – or ICANN – to act as customer services for the 100 million domain names out there.
What I will do is ask GoDaddy if they will provide an update on the issues they are having. But it really is up to them. I will ask.
Kieren
General manager of public participation, ICANN
David 07.20.07 at 8:24 pm
Hmmm… a nice, simple clarification of my question, exactly as requested. Yet no reply. It seems it’s easier to comment on my comments than to answer them.
I’ve got a few dozen domain names that got transferred to GD from RF that I cannot move before they expire. Why? Because I’m one of thousands of people who are subject to GD’s Terms Of Service — to which I never agreed!
So I cannot move any of these expiring domains before they expire, as they fall within the 60-day window required by GD’s TOS where you can’t do anything with them.
No yelling. No whining. Just the fifth time I’ve brought this up. Still, no comment from anybody at ICANN as to WHY or HOW RF customers are being subjected to GD’s TOS when we were never given a choice or asked to agree or not. We’re simply TRAPPED.
Kieren McCarthy 07.21.07 at 12:26 am
Hi David., I have this response (which I thought I’d posted in response to your comment as I have posted it in several places elsewhere but clearly not).
It answers the question as to why you may not be able to transfer your domains from GoDaddy. I suspect however it will fall short of what you appear to be asking, which is a legal clarification from ICANN over the behaviour of a third-party in an independent transaction with a company unaffiliated from ICANN.
It should come as no surprise that since ICANN is not a legislative body that it won’t be drawn into commenting on the legal implications of a deal it was not a party of. But if you feel GoDaddy has broken the terms of its accreditation agreement with ICANN, please draw up a complaint and ICANN’s compliance unit will chase it up.
In the meantime, here is a response to the question about transfers:
————————
Some registrants have reported that they are unable to transfer domain names that were bulk-transferred from RegisterFly to Go Daddy, and that the reason provided by Go Daddy was that the registration was transferred within the previous 60 days.
As clarification, the Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy allows Go Daddy (just like all registrars) to deny a transfer-out on the basis that the registration was transferred within the previous 60 days. (See Section A.3 (9).) This provision of the Transfer Policy does not distinguish between prior transfers that were requested by the registrant or part of a bulk-transfer. Please note that the Transfer Policy does not require Go Daddy to deny the transfers for 60 days, but it is a fairly common practice within the industry and not unreasonable given the circumstances.
Accordingly, Go Daddy may deny transfers-out for names that were bulk-transferred within the prior 60 days from Registerfly, although it is not required to do so.
—————————
Hope this helps
Kieren McCarthy
General manager of public participation, ICANN
jim 07.22.07 at 7:26 am
How do I get access to my domains that have been moved to GoDaddy since you say they’ve all been moved there?
Justin 07.23.07 at 10:33 am
I too am now being preyed upon by godaddy.com
From everything that I had showing and still show in my registerfly account, I still owned my domain. After a month of emails and sending forms, i now have access to a godaddy account, but to find that the one domain that was the most important is not available. After contacting GD support, they tell me that it is expired now and i have to pay them $80 to get it back?
I was told directly that there was a grace period. So if i get this straight, registerfly had cash in my account (still does even though I can’t get it) and the domain was set to autorenew (though now shows as not), they didn’t renew the domain, Go daddy “rescues” it, then claims it was expired and hold it for a ransom of $80 even though there was “grace period”? I’m not sure that I am trusting anyone right now, but i do know that I am not getting any help from godaddy.
jim 07.25.07 at 6:07 am
WHERE ARE THE REST OF MY DOMAINS?????????????????????
I just logged into my GoDaddy account and they only have 35 of my domains in there. I had 100 with registerfly!!!!! Where the hell are my other 70 domains?????????????????? I can’t believe this. CAN SOMEONE HELP?????????????????
Kieren McCarthy 07.25.07 at 6:10 am
Yes, GoDaddy can help.
GoDaddy purchased all of RegisterFly’s domain in a commercial deal. You should contact GoDaddy customer service.
Kieren McCarthy
General manager of public participation, ICANN
Justin 07.25.07 at 8:43 am
I have just been told by godaddy that they are not going to do anything to help me as their records indicate that I was contacted by a customer server rep and told them that I didn’t need any help. I cannot believe this. I didn’t say this and there is no way they have proof. When I was contacted by the representative, he tried to get me into the account, but was unable to due to the email changing. He sent me documentation on how to retrieve it and told me to contact domain services if I had any other issues. I did that and for the next month tried to gain access to the account. Now that they gave me access, they say I took too long and have to pay their fees to get my domain back. This is not helpful or friendly. If you are having problems with godaddy.com too, file a complaint with ICANN. This was probably for the greater good, but there are many customers like me getting shafted by godaddy and it’s not right.
Melvin 07.25.07 at 1:34 pm
I actually think that Kieren might be forgetting that some of the domains may be in other registrars. For myself (.us domain), that registrar was enom. I contacted enom early only to lead to frustration, but the last time I contacted them they had their act together and really were great help.
Log into your Registerfly account, get a list of the domains then go do a whois on the record (I like whois.sc/yourdomain.ext ) and see who the official registrar is. If it says godaddy and it’s not in the account, possibly you have multiple accounts. If it says enom, etc, then that domain is with that registrar and you will have to contact them directly.
Kieren is correct in that Godaddy can help as they can also lookup the data, but it might be faster for you to look it up first before calling them.
Kieren McCarthy 07.25.07 at 2:10 pm
Yes, good point, thanks Melvin.
Kieren
johnnyleech 07.28.07 at 7:57 am
Hello,
I am was told over at registerflies.com to post my story here.
http://www.registerflies.com/smf/the-registerfly-debacle/registerfly/registerfly-horror-stories/bye-bye-domains-…/0-topicseen-topicseen.html
Registerfly stole my two domains.
After numerous attempts to transfer my domains to somewhere else I got someone on live support:
[---------------------------------------------------------------]
Chat InformationHello, Welcome to 24/7 Registerfly.com Customer Support Service. Please wait for a site operator to respond. Your call will be answered in the order that it was received.
Chat InformationYou are now chatting with ‘Jim Jones’
Jim Jones: Hello, Welcome to Registerfly LIVE Chat, This is Client Support Representative Jim, How may I Help you?
Johnny: Hello Jim
Jim Jones: Hello
Johnny: I’m having some problems with the transfer of my two domains
Johnny: I started the transfer before the expiration date
Johnny: but the transfer wasn’t started and now the domains are in redemption status
Johnny: I have a couple of support tickets open that date from last week about it but until now I didn’t receive any response from Registerfly except the mention that I had to renew the domains
Johnny: So, I did the renew procedure but received the error that the domains could not be renewed and that I needed to contact Registerfly
Johnny: which I did with no response.
Johnny: I have the amount for the renewal in my account for a total of 17.x$
Johnny: so, can you please tell me why after all this time I still have no answer from Registerfly and most importantly – > when will this be solved?
Jim Jones: your domains are in redemption period
Johnny: yes, which means that the owner (me) can renew them with the registrar.
Jim Jones: and you will have to reregister your domains as the registry of these domains has fallen down
Johnny: the domains went in redemption period because I didn’t get an activation code to start the transfer from Registerfly. and last time I checked a owner of a domain that is in redemption period can be retrieved through the registrar
Johnny: and that is the answer that I’ve gotten from Registerfly. That I needed to pay the amount which I did.
Johnny: so the only thing that needs to be done now is that Registerfly retrieves those domains.
Johnny: FYI: the REDEMPTION PERIOD provides the owner with one last chance to recover the domain before it’s dropped and potentially re-registered by a new owner. It is a new policy started by ICANN and the Registry Operator, Verisign.
Jim Jones: you can reregister it sir
Johnny: reregister or renew ? because a register gives the message that the domain is not available since it is in redemption
Jim Jones: yes you will have to reregister your domain after 2 days
Jim Jones: pleaes try it after 2 days
Johnny: I have tried again and they are submitted to the queue
Johnny: what after 2days ? 2 days from now or when the redemption is over ?
Johnny: I’ve looked here in the current status and this is the result: “Failed: Unable to renew currentexpirationyear must be a four-digit year.”
Johnny: I don’t understand what is the problem.
Jim Jones: soon redemption period will be over
Johnny: A domain that is in redemption period can be reinstated by the Registrar
Johnny: it is not an extra service that some provide but one that is specified by ICANN
Jim Jones: and you could reregister the domain after 2 days
Jim Jones: please try it later not now
Johnny: so Jim, for the record: you are telling me that Registerfly refuse to reinstate a domain that is in redemption???
Johnny: here is the response that I got from the Registerfly support: “Responses from Customer Support [2007-01-18] Hello Johnny, The domain “******.com” and “******.com” are found to be in your expired list. Kindly renew your domains before transferring to another registrar. Regards, Bob Curtis Client Support Executive Registerfly.com INC ICANN Accredited Registrar”
Jim Jones: sir the registry of these domains has fallen down
Johnny: yes I know
Jim Jones: in this case you will have reregister the domain
Jim Jones: and can not be renewed now
Johnny: No, the domains are in “redemption period”
Johnny: and domains that are in redemption period CAN be re instated by the original registrar, in this case Registerfly
Johnny: so instead of waiting to the redemption period to be over, the domains must be re instated by Registerfly
Johnny: Hello Jim, do you have any news?
Jim Jones: I am sorry for it sir
Jim Jones: it will be reregistered only
Johnny: and why? I presume that a company that says that it’s ICANN accredited follows it’s simple rules?
Johnny: so, what you are telling me is that I need to wait until the redemption period is over before being able to reregister the domains? and this while it can be simply resolved if Registerfly reinstate them?
Jim Jones: I am sorry for it sir
Jim Jones: hello sir r u there?
Johnny: yes I am
Johnny: Is that an official answer from Registerfly?
Jim Jones: Pleaes cooperate with us and your patience is highly appreciated
Johnny: cooperate?
Jim Jones: Please reregister your domain after 2 days
Johnny: How much more cooperation do you want then?
Johnny: after more than a week I didn’t receive any reply on my support tickets
Johnny: I get the message from a registerfly employee telling me that I need to renew the domains
Johnny: I do that but instead I get an error telling me that the year must be a 4-digit number when send. that is something at level of registerfly
Johnny: I kindly ask to reinstate the domains which are in redemption period and I get the answer that I need to wait until this period is over and the reregister the domains.
Johnny: And you keep telling me that you are sorry, and that my patience is highly appreciated??? I mean come on …
Jim Jones: I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience caused to you
Johnny: As a ICANN registrar I expect the service that is bound to it…
Johnny: And can you tell me why it can’t be done ?
Johnny: So for the last time, will Registerfly uphold the ICANN rules as one of its registrars or not ?
Johnny: that’s the only thing that I need to now at this point
Johnny: and don’t take this personal since I understand that you have nothing to do with it.
Johnny: But I’m sure that this is not how it’s supposed to be handled.
Johnny: I’m sure that there must be at least one supervisor or manager over at Registerfly that understands what an ICANN Accredited Registrar is obligated to do.
Chat InformationChat session has been closed by the site operator. Thank you for using RegisterFly.com live Chat and have a great day!
[---------------------------------------------------------------]
And what a great day I had …
I’ve posted numerous support tickets that were never answered for and simply deleted or closed after a couple of weeks. I have although a copy of them so I in my endless hope that someone at RegisterFly would even care about the customer I wrote them a letter with everything in it, the chatlog, the screenshots, the support tickets but as the days went by so did the hope to a solution… and reality started to kick in. A reality were I’ve been screwed over and over and over by RegisterFly.
After the redemption period was over I thought to myself “hey, let’s renew my domains.”
So I started the procedure only to see the message that the domains were already registered. “Could it be that RegisterFly took it’s responsibility and reinstated my domains ?”
And then reality came knocking, both domains were taken by a company who’s name said it all, I don’t know the name anymore since when I came back the next days to write it down the domains already changed owner…
Anyway, when browsing to the domains I got the message that they were for sale so I clicked the link which brought me back to the registrars website telling me that I could buy them for a small price of 100.000USD, yes… “one hundred thousand US dollars“ … each.
I had domain name value estimation done a couple of months ago and the price was +-100.000USD so I guess they wanted to cash in.
Ever since I go back to look at the whois information, and the domains change owner more often that I change my underpants.
I know one thing for sure and that is if I lived in the US that I would pay a visit to mr Medina and shove his Chihuahua up his ***, he’s for sure on my list.
Kieren McCarthy 07.28.07 at 2:17 pm
Johnnyleech,
This post makes me uneasy. When did this happen? Why does your link to RegisterFlies not work? And why do you think it appropriate to post this long chatty post on the ICANN blog?
There are a few details in the story how you tell it that make me uncertain that this is either the whole story or an accurate version of what happened.
If you can get back, or email me personally at kieren dot mccarthy at icann dot org, I will review this but at the moment my intention is to remove this post in the next few days.
Kieren McCarthy
General manager of public participation, ICANN
Chuck Gladu 07.30.07 at 10:34 pm
Not sure if anyone cares at this point, but I just checked the Registerfly web page and they are back to displaying the ICANN accredited logo at the bottom of all of their web pages.
As an amusing note in order to burn up the money I still had on account with them (but will never see refunded) I placed an order for a VPS back on June 19th. Despite debiting my account for the order immediately, they still have not provided any VPS and have closed three support calls about it with no reply and deleted one other (also with no reply). So my guess is that Robert O’ Neill’s claim that “We are NOT OUT OF BUSINESS…” isn’t worth the pixels it’s printed on.
John Bokma 09.27.07 at 6:44 am
Here is enom help with registerfly problems from registerflies.com. Once you’ve established that your registrar is Enom, the proceed with the steps in the link. Please do not call Enom because they are swamped with angry Registerfly phone calls. Just follow these steps so everything goes smoothly and you get your names out of Registerfly.
I have over 180 domains with Registerfly and all transfered successfully. There is a “bulk pricing” on godaddy’s site. When renewing 6+ domain names at a time, you can get a discount as well. Over 20 domains and the prices are about the same as with discount codes. There are also many GoDaddy coupons here. It saved me quite a lot.
John Cell 11.12.07 at 6:53 am
Kieran and David:
I think that David’s reply was clear, detailed, accurate, and very much to the point. Even though David is not an attorney, he obviously is familiar with legalese and contracts. If Kieran and ICANN want to serve the public (and not just the leaders of the registration industry), then Kieran should re-read David’s reply. David is not rude, obnoxious, nor rambling. The entire letter is professional.
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